Sachs Aris 8-speed Freewheels

[Guest]

Does anybody out there have any experience running a Sachs Aris 8-speed freewheel with Campy 8. I know the cog thickness and spacing are correct as Campy 7 and 8, Sachs 7 and 8, and ShimaNO 7 are the same.

I'm currently running Mirage 8 Ergo levers and an Athena 8 rear derailleur (or mech as you Brits call it) with a NOS Sachs 7-speed freewheel on a Mavic 550 hub on my commuting/training/beater bike. It works just fine, but at 12-21 it's pretty much a "flatland" bike even with a 50-36 compact crank. A 12-23 or even a 12-25 would make the bike more versatile.

The frame is a newer aluminum with 130 mm spacing and I had to use 2 mm washers on either side of the hub (it's 126) to both keep the chain from rubbing the frame and not "squeeze" the rear triangle. There's plenty of axle left to grip the thick aluminum dropouts. My head mechanic says finding a 130 axle for that hub would be next to impossible these days.

I occasionally see 8-speed Sachs on Ebay and I know they require more space than the 7. There is quite a bit of clearance between the large cog and the hub flange with the 7, so much more in fact that when I subbed the Sachs for an old 7-speed Dura-Ace (yes, I know) I had to adjust the inner derailleur stop considerably "out". I'm hoping that's where Sachs stuck the extra cog.

Any information would be most appreciated.

Richard

[Guest]

I'm not 100% sure but I'm think that whilst the 7 speed cassette was Campag compatible the 8 speed was ShimaNO compatible.

Whilst I would ordinarily defer, Rob, I beg to differ.

For example, awhile back I ran Sachs New Success 8-speed shifters (actually Campy) with a New Success rear derailleur. It would index perfectly across 7-speed ShimaNO freewheels and cassettes, and likewise a Campy 8-speed cassette on a Veloce wheelset I had. A friend of mine was running Chorus 8 with a Sachs 8-speed freewheel, but it was a different rear hub that had been spaced out to 130. One of our parts suppliers (QBP) lists the cog spacing, cog thickness, and spacer thickness for all the various systems and lo, and behold - Campy 7 and 8, Sachs 7 and 8, and ShimaNO 7 (only) are exactly the same.

It is ShimaNO 8 that is NOT COMPATIBLE with anything other than ShimaNO 8 and it frosts me to see people selling 8-speed Campy stuff on Ebay claiming ShimaNO compatibility.

My issue is the amount of space between the hub flange and the axle lock nut/dropout necessary to run the 8-speed freewheel.

Possibly I should rephrase and simplify my question. Has anybody out there successfully run a Sachs 8-speed freewheel on a 126 mm hub?

Richard

[Guest]

Whew, Campyfan.

At this point I'm thinking it would be easier to find an 8-speed Campy hub and relace the bloody wheel. 8-speed cassettes are readily available as are hubs (both new from QBP and on Ebay.) I do, however, love those Mavic hubs (two sets) which are silky smooth and have proved themselves to be bulletproof over 10+ years.

I'm currently bidding on a slightly used Sachs 8 freewheel on Ebay. It's cheap enough to warrant taking a chance.

Right now I'm kicking myself for selling that Veloce wheelset (along with 12-23 and 13-26 cassettes) despite the low-end Mavic rims that were on it. Could have laced the hubs up to my Open Pros for a good serviceable wheelset. Oh well, live and learn.

Regardless, thanks for the expert advice and I'll let all know the results.

Richard

[Guest]

Richard you were asking for a way to solve your problem, and i do know a lot easier ways to solve it other than the route i went with my reply, however i was under the assumption you wanted to KEEP the 550 hub.
To be realistic, reworking the 550 hub the way i said will take less than 20 minutes to actually do, its just i was trying to be explicit as to how and what to do in case you wanted a "step by step" written process, which takes a lot of fiddley explaining.
Just buying another hub is probably what you should have done initially, and kick away on yourself for selling the Veloce wheels with pleasure.

Campyfan,

I'm truly sorry if I seemed dismissive as I didn't mean to be. I DO want to save those Mavic hubs and the two wheelsets with them. I have several old Dura-Ace 7 freewheel bodies in great shape with a bag full of cogs plus the Sachs which is nearly new. I can live with 7 but, as I said, 8 would be nice.

I plan on taking your advice to my Campy loving head mechanic (with 35 years experience). He thinks Sachs freewheels are among the best ever made and believes it worth a shot.

Again, sorry if I came off smug.

Richard

[Guest]

An update for anybody who gives a you-know-what.

I just purchased a NOS Athena 32 hole rear hub on eBay. The deciding factor was that I'm going to have to rebuild my rear wheel anyway. Being "cute", I originally built it with alloy nipples. Problem is, I live near the Pacific Ocean and salt air is hell on alloy nipples.

I went to do some minor truing the other day and one of the nipples literally "crumbled" in the spoke wrench. Live and learn, alloy nipples are a stupid way to save a few grams, particularly if you ride a lot near a large body of salt water.

Luckily, our store has two (count 'em TWO) NOS Record 8 speed cassettes, a 12-23 and a 13-26, in stock and I'm grabbing both.

Thanks to all for the input.

Richard

[Guest]

Ah well what can i say that you havent said already Richard, alloy nipples are really not for everyday wheel sets and the corrosive nature of water mixed with salt or sweat only makes matters worse. As you found out after a while they crumble and turn to dust when you try to make any adjustments to the spokes.

Had Raymundo (30 years experience including frame building for Benotto in Mexico) relace the Open Pro cross two with DT 14-15 spokes and BRASS nipples. As much as I liked the Sachs freewheel, the Record 8-speed cassette shifts far better and having the 36-23 low gear got me up the Newport Coast climb in decent, if not "pro quality" shape. Got 70 "hard" miles in the last two days.

Again, great forum with a hell of a lot less "attitude" than I see on others.

[Guest]

Another update on the 8 speed front.

I "scored" a pair of Bontrager Race Lite wheels at a great price from one of our customers who just had to have Mavic Ksyriums on her Project One Trek Madone. They had a little under 200 miles on them.

Fortunately, we had in the store a Campy 9-10 cassette body compatible with the new Race Lites. I traded the ShimaNO compatible body and ordered the Campy spacer KIT-03 and a Veloce 12-23 9sp cassette.

Unlike the plastic spacers with the Veloce, the KIT-03 spacers are very cool blue anodized alloy. I pulled out the 16 cog (Campy recommends dropping the largest cog, but I wanted the 23.)

To make a long story short, it works great, albeit with a bit of a "clunk" shifting between the 15 and 17, no doubt due to the slight misalignment of the shifting ramps. Another plus is that the spacing/alignment is spot on with the Athena hubbed wheel - no need to fiddle with derailleur stops or adjustments when switching wheels.

And the "frosting on the cake" (as it were) is I now have a spare wheelset that will work with either my 8sp or 10sp Campy equipped bikes.

Thank you Campagnolo.

[Guest]

I bought an old set of SR wheels that were converted to 8 speed. The owner put in a long 140mm axle to fit 130mm spacing. There is a virtually unused Sach 12-21 freewheel on it. It works fine on my Chorus 8 speed bike. As far as I'm concerned it's a go.


Tim

Lucky you. Once again, it speaks well for "old" Campy stuff that can be "upgraded", unlike my old Mavic hubs.